Love Fort Wayne Podcast

From Recovery to Redemption: Tomi Cardin's Mission to Reshape Lives Post-Incarceration

Love Fort Wayne

Overcoming the odds is a story we've all heard, but few have lived it quite like Tomi Cardin, founder and CEO of Redemption House. Her personal journey from recovery to revolutionizing support for women post-incarceration is nothing short of inspirational. Throughout the episode, we peel back the layers of Tomi's mission to provide a sanctuary for those in the throes of re-entry, and how her faith-driven approach is not only reshaping lives but also collaborating closely with the criminal justice system. It's a conversation that highlights the profound necessity of transitional housing and the pivotal role it plays in the landscape of sentencing reforms and overcrowded prisons.

Touching on the lives transformed by Redemption House, we recount the compelling narrative of a Delaware County woman whose initial skepticism of the program's faith elements eventually became her cornerstone of support. The episode culminates in an exploration of the synergetic spirit thriving within Allen County’s social service network, where nonprofit leaders unite with integrity and shared vision. We discuss the intricacies of financial stewardship, the importance of an abundance mindset, and the power of vulnerability among leaders in the nonprofit community. Join us as we celebrate this tapestry of redemption, volunteerism, and community partnership, and discover the true impact of supporting organizations dedicated to changing the narrative around addiction, recovery, and societal reintegration.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to season four of the Love Fort Wayne podcast. The Love Fort Wayne podcast amplifies the stories of everyday people who are loving and leading in Northeast Indiana to spark imagination, root inspiration and ignite transformation in our community and beyond. At Love Fort Wayne, we believe the pillars of a flourishing community are its leaders, pastors, schools, families and prayer. And in season four we're excited to learn from and be encouraged by people who not only lead but love our city in these areas each day. Before we dive in, we want to say thank you to our partners at Remedy Live Dream On Studios Star Financial. Want to say thank you to our partners at Remedy Live Dream On Studios Star Financial, brotherhood, mutual and Shepherd Family Auto Group for making the podcast possible. Welcome everybody to our next episode of the Love Fort Wayne podcast. I'm excited that you're with us today, that you're watching, that you're tuned in wherever you're listening to the podcast or watching the podcast, I'm joined by my friend, mitch Cruz. Hello.

Speaker 1:

How you doing Mitch Good. How are you so good? So good what you've been up to today.

Speaker 2:

I've had a lot going on today, a lot of surprise encounters. Yeah yeah, but I am grateful and thankful to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm grateful to be here with you and I'm grateful because we're here and we're with our friend. We can call her friend. She definitely is a friend of ours and of many in our city. We're here with Tommy Carden. She's the founder CEO of Redemption House. It's a wonderful ministry outreach organization here in Fort Wayne. We're not going to steal your thunder. We want you to be able to share about yourself and share a little bit more about Redemption House. So first, thank you for being with us.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, guys, for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're equally excited as well. So let's start there. Let's start with you just sharing a little bit about yourself, the mission of Redemption House, for folks that aren't familiar with it, but we also want to hear about your story, your testimony and what led you to Redemption House.

Speaker 3:

How long did you say we had? No, my story is one that is very similar to the women that we have the privilege and honor of serving at Redemption House. So, to start, redemption House is a network of transition homes for women and we serve as an alternative to incarceration. So every woman that comes into our program is ordered by a criminal justice provider or a problem-solving court, and it can be anything from a drug court. A re-entry court means coming back from prison. Instead of going to prison, it can be through family court, working to get their children back.

Speaker 3:

It can be preventative, but it can also be an additional criteria for a woman who is involved with a problem-solving court but struggles with stability. So every woman comes into our program by an order of the court and then we have the honor and privilege of diving in to that journey with her by providing a home, a safe, structured, to that journey with her. By providing a home, a safe, structured, stable home, family, right off the bat, you walk in the door and you are a part of our family and faith. We have made a commitment to the Lord and to our community to create an environment where God can work in the lives of the women we serve. So while we have a network of homes we started as the one home 12 years ago we've grown into a network of six houses serving basically northern Indiana and into parts of Ohio because other communities want to send women here. But what we get to be a part of is watching God restore brokenness. And then, if you think about, well, how did I end up here?

Speaker 3:

Just a few months ago, in January of this year, I celebrated 25 years clean myself. So I have had the privilege of walking out a recovery journey. I have done the work to allow God to restore my life, to redeem my brokenness, to overcome the challenges. Some were beyond my control and things that I experienced in my childhood. Others were decisions really, really poor ones I made as a result of a lot of that childhood and a really dysfunctional young adulthood. And then I came to know the Lord in January of 1999. And that is also my clean date. So I have been on this journey that many of the women are on. I had my involvement with the law. I had my childhood traumas. I endured bad decisions and consequences and brokenness, self-esteem issues, lack of hope and lack of purpose. And now I have the honor and privilege of diving into that, with women at the very beginning of their journey and watching God do the same things and just be amazed at his power to restore.

Speaker 2:

Can you talk about the need for women transitioning from incarceration? I don't know how many people would understand the volume that might be there.

Speaker 3:

The need is incredible, not just for places for women to serve. I imagine people have heard about sentencing reform and you can't lock everybody up and prisons are overcrowded All of that is true, but having places instead of, you know you get in trouble, you break the law, you get in trouble, there are consequences. There are a number of problems solving courts that are preventative, that are pre-sentence, post sentence I mean that's a whole world that operates. The criminal justice system operates within our community. What's so vital is the partnership that we have with that criminal justice, our criminal justice system, and that we commit and endeavor to be a good partner to them by providing the stability while a woman is working through the criminal justice system. There are responsibilities, there are appointments, there are classes, there are benchmarks that men and women have to meet going through an alternative sentencing program and sometimes they don't have places.

Speaker 3:

What? The environment that led them to this situation and this point in their lives is not necessarily the one that's going to see them through it or get them out of it. There's a lot of dysfunction in homes and in communities. There's a lot of family trauma and there are a lot of boundaries to overcome. So the need for a place like Redemption House. There are some really wonderful transition programs in town recovery residences. Not all of them are faith-based, but we all serve a really important purpose. But I happen to believe that the fact that our program relies on the hand of God to lead it and to lead the change in the women that we serve makes an even bigger difference in their lives.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's so good. Can I mash our first couple questions? You have your beautiful redemption story and when you share it I get a little choked up as I listen to it. It's just beautiful. And then you spoke so specifically about the reality of the need. Can I ask where your redemption story and seeing this need collided? Because if you get on your website it's written so beautifully. I would love to hear, like that portion of your story where your story and the need collide.

Speaker 3:

So back in 99, I received salvation at a local ministry here in town Actually it was at the dining room table of the pastor and his wife of this ministry in town and a few years later she asked me to accompany her to chapel service at our local jail. Now I was still like somewhat in my own beginning of my Christian walk and I didn't have any interest in going into the jail. I'd visited once in a holding cell and that was plenty. But I loved her and I respected her. And she asked me and I said yes. So we do the service up in the chapel, fifth floor of the Allen County Jail, and she asked me to close the service in prayer. There was a lady that came and did a song, she did the message and then she asked me to pray in front of people.

Speaker 2:

Had you ever prayed in front of people? Well, no, not. If I could help it, just make sure I'm tracking.

Speaker 3:

I mean, we're talking just a few years into my own Christian walk. And I was very unsure, I was not confident and I was still working through my own issues and boundaries and struggles in my faith. But I prayed, I did it, I just trusted God and dove in. I don't remember a thing I said, but Chaplain Elisha Harris, who's been there forever, came up after and told me that he was afraid to open his eyes because he thought Jesus had shown up.

Speaker 3:

Oh, my goodness, and the women that were there. Many of them were crying. I had no idea what I said, but I knew. At that moment that was the very first time that I knew I stumbled upon something that was going to change my life.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

I didn't know what that meant at the time, but I knew I was supposed to be there. I saw myself sitting there like one of those women in the blues, the jail blues. I could have been there I really should have at many points in my life. But here I was, in front of them, walking out this very imperfect journey, but very committed to wanting to be different. So then I got involved as a volunteer chaplain here locally. I started going to do the substance abuse and recovery classes that they offered there. I started going to do Bible study up on the Q block. I started going in to fill commissary orders and before I knew it I was going into the jail three or four times a week because I wanted to and knew I was supposed to be there.

Speaker 2:

My goodness.

Speaker 3:

And I would connect with the women and we would develop this really neat relationship and we would make plans to get together when they got out. And then they'd get out and I wouldn't see him or hear from him.

Speaker 3:

And I wouldn't cross paths with them again until they got re-arrested. And that just broke my heart because I knew the Jesus they were getting to know in there was real. I knew the work that being done was real. But then it was through prayer time that I realized that where they were going, when they left, didn't allow those seeds to take root and keep growing. And that's where the vision for Redemption House Ministry started that creating a place where women could go and keep that journey going.

Speaker 1:

That's fascinating, god could keep moving. So fascinating, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, judge told me about you one time that you're an absolute rock star.

Speaker 3:

I don't know about that, but thank you yeah yeah, so cool.

Speaker 1:

So we fast forward where your story, the need, they collide and, as you just shared with us, what that led to. Now, as you mentioned, this Redemption House is a network of homes that is pouring back into the lives of these women, where there's this deep need that you saw firsthand. Now you've got a team, a faithful team I've been to the main, I mean a faithful team that holds it down, that loves these women, but you also have these women that you're leading and serving, even from your founding and CEO role. What does leadership look like to you? What type of leadership does it take to lead these folks that are leading in the redemption homes and also the women that are residing there?

Speaker 3:

To me, leadership looks like a privilege comes with responsibility. But when you accept that call into a position of authority over others and with others, you become a team. But you agree to carry a bit more of the burden, and I counted an honor and a privilege to do that. I don't take it lightly. I don't ever show up or I try not to ever show up unintentionally because I also know what God can do through my presence, my involvement, my commitment. I know what he can do and I sometimes think, when we have challenging residents, ones that really don't want to be there, that are there because they don't want to be in jail more that God's up to something in their life.

Speaker 3:

And I wonder sometimes what my journey would have looked like had I had something like Redemption House to walk alongside me at the beginning. Would that first decade of my Christian walk looked different if I had a team of people that constantly told me I was worth it, that constantly believed that I had value and that there was something more for me versus trying and failing and trying and failing and crying out to God to help me not do this anymore? What if there was a person and I had a church? So don't get me wrong, I wasn't by myself, but there's something about a home and a family and I think about that. I can be that for someone else and now that we're 12 years in, I actually get to hear from people that were there 12 years ago.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

I get to watch their children graduate from high school and remember their mom's time. I get to watch women have babies while they're clean and sober, and I get to be Aunt Tommy. And now they're trying to call me Grandma Tommy but I don't think I'm down with that.

Speaker 2:

I pumped the brakes on that for a while. Do you have a story or two you could share with us?

Speaker 3:

I have some really cool stories.

Speaker 2:

The hard part is narrowing them down. Oh, I believe it.

Speaker 3:

But we have a very current recent story that I think bears sharing. There's a young lady who came to Redemption House from another county. Delaware County, down in Muncie, has become one of our largest referral sources, outside of Allen County of course, but they just don't have programs, many at all down there, but of our caliber there's just nothing really that compares. So this young lady came to us from Delaware County, from Muncie, I think she was 34, 33, I think she turned 34 while in our program, agreed to come, willing to do the program, didn't really want much to do with all the faith stuff we had going on and knew she wanted something different.

Speaker 3:

But when her six months were up she was going back, she had it all worked out and I just kept saying we'll see, we'll see and she just was going to prove me, we'll see and she just was gonna prove me wrong. You know she was gonna graduate, she really was not a difficult resident but she was maybe not going above and beyond a ton. Right, so it gets to be graduation. You start to see her heart soften, you start to see her connect, you start to see her open up graduation. Hitsuation hits her six months and by this time we had started graduate housing, which are homes for women who have completed the program but still want to stay connected and need a little more support.

Speaker 1:

That's cool. Yeah, we had just opened the second graduate house when she graduated.

Speaker 3:

So she she leaves. It hitsm on day six months and she's on her way back to Muncie by that night. She called me and she said I want to come home, I can't stay here. I said, all right, there's a room for you. And so the next day she was gone less than 24 hours and she was back and she was in a graduate house.

Speaker 3:

A few months after that she said I want to be more involved at Redemption House. Is there something I can do? I said well, how about getting involved as, like our donations coordinator? So then she comes on staff at Redemption House. So now she's living in graduate housing, she's on staff, and then she has to come and tell me that she is pregnant unexpectedly. But she's expecting and we don't house children in our transitional living or in graduate housing at this point. So she's very nervous about what happens to her when she has the baby. She's very nervous about what happens to her when she has the baby and she starts filling out applications. But she's got an extensive criminal history. She's nervous about having this baby because she has three other children that she does not have custody of but is working to rebuild relationship with, and she came to me, really afraid, to tell me it's like telling your mom you're pregnant but she's not in high school.

Speaker 3:

And I told her that, I encouraged her. Why don't you continue to pray, trust God for what he has next for you? She kept getting turned down on applications. She didn't make enough, or her criminal history or her credit.

Speaker 3:

All of the boundaries were against her or barriers were against her or barriers were against her, but I knew that God had us working on being able to open our first family graduate housing. Now, I couldn't put it out to everyone yet and I didn't know the timing of what God had going on, but I remember just a few months after that I got to call her into my office and I got to sit her down and I said what would you think about moving into this new graduate house and securing a second room for your son.

Speaker 3:

Before he was even born, he had a bedroom in a graduate house and his mom got to know that she was going to go through the rest of this pregnancy and have her baby and bring him home to a place with that structure and that love and support. And so he's the first man who's ever had a room at the production house.

Speaker 3:

And he is tremendous. He's five months old now. She's still our donations coordinator. She's been clean over three years. She has contact with her other children. A couple of them have even come up to visit and what I get to see is just amazing and I wish I could take credit for it. But really it's what God's up to.

Speaker 2:

He wants to make disciples who make disciples, and that is exactly what's going on there.

Speaker 3:

And now she's pouring into the lives of women in the program. And when they're struggling and they think they have it all figured out, she's telling them we'll see. And when they're struggling and they think they have it all figured out.

Speaker 2:

she's telling them we'll see. It sounded like when she left she didn't have a good place to go. She didn't, and I assume that's common. That's part of what gets the women where they are and part of what has them go back a lot of times.

Speaker 3:

She had quite a criminal history dating clear back to when she was a juvenile in that community down there, and people knew she was back before she even got there, and they weren't the good kind, so they were already reaching out to her Already. Those forces of darkness were already trying to pull her back and she was smart enough and strong enough to know she couldn't fight it on her own. So now we have multiple women from Delaware County living in graduate housing because they know what they're building here is powerful. They have jobs, they're being promoted, they're having their kids come up for visitation and we get to be a part of watching them. God really do some neat things in their lives.

Speaker 1:

You know, as as you share, that I think for both of you, like there's the, then there's more light in our city, in our community. You know where, uh, these women, their lives are transformed. Redemption is now their testimony and they, they live here, they work here, they're contributing here in ways that are beyond what man and woman can see or what we would measure as success or impactful. They are shining their light here in this place, and so just hats off again for you all's heart to continue to pour into these women. If they're from here, if they're from the counties or towns that surround here, this is their home, and I love that portion of the story. I need to come home.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I need to come home, so it's so good. You know, I think about the temperature of unity in our city and togetherness. And, tommy, I know you. I know that your heart is to work with others and serve alongside others, and you guys have to work with others and serve alongside others, and you guys have. Why do you think the temperature of unity, of working together in this type of work, is so hot right now in our community?

Speaker 3:

Well, it's really the only thing that really makes a true and impacting difference. Anyone trying to go it alone is just going to run into obstacle after obstacle. No one can do everything great. But if you can do your thing well and you partner with others who are doing their thing well, and then you partner with another doing their thing well, before you know it, you are really making a difference. Your impact is multiplied tremendously by partnering with others, and I know personally that we have incredible nonprofits in this community. Our social service network is beyond anything I've ever heard of outside of Allen County and the surrounding areas.

Speaker 3:

I know the leaders that lead these organizations and I believe in them and their integrity and their calling. They aren't called to do what I do and I'm not called to do what they're called to do, but if we work together, who we serve can be impacted in an even greater way. So I feel like that brings glory to God, that's right.

Speaker 3:

I feel like that honors what he's created in this community. I love that we can partner together and share resources, because resources can be challenging, they can be scary. They're probably the hardest part of stepping into this kind of a leadership role.

Speaker 2:

Talk about that.

Speaker 3:

Relying on the generosity of others.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Carries with it. When you talked about the responsibility of leadership, well, there's a responsibility that comes with financially stewarding a non-profit organization, and I was just sharing earlier um today at a meeting that I feel like even we are at a season of what I call like our manna season. We go out and collect just enough for today and god shows up and does it again tomorrow. And he does it again tomorrow because we're committed to continuing to be excellent, whether there's a huge cushion in the bank or there's enough for today, and being grateful for it and then looking for ways to support others. So it's much like you reap what you sow. Sow seeds so that your harvest will be what brings God glory. So go and support someone else, show up at their event, pour into, share resources, share leads, apply for grants together. Don't feel like you're on an island and don't be afraid to be vulnerable. I'm not the only nonprofit director that faces financial challenges, but nobody wants to talk about it or they don't feel safe talking about it.

Speaker 3:

And I'm not afraid to be vulnerable and I'm not afraid to be honest. But I'd also like to be responsible and say, hey, can you help me with this? Or what did you do when you did this? Or if someone says, hey, can you help me with this, then I'm going to show up, as I know others would show up for me.

Speaker 2:

I would think you got to have an abundance mindset over a scarcity mindset, to collaborate with others in that way when it does come to resources. And I want to encourage you I think it was Franklin Graham's book Rebel with a Cause, where he talked about how Samaritan's Purse got going and these ladies would pray for exactly what they needed and that to the decimal point I'm not kidding you to what's beyond, to what's right at the decimal point, would show up in their mailboxes back in the day.

Speaker 1:

And I've never forgotten that.

Speaker 2:

And so, wherever if you're on the manna from heaven thing, that's a good place to be yeah, and even told you know, the lord told them don't collect more. It's gonna go.

Speaker 3:

We're not gonna hold on to all these donations. We'll bless them on because you know they can do something good for someone else, that's right thank you for that encouragement that's beautiful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we, we are. We, we are rich with social service and a lot of them are faith rooted Christian faith rooted love the Lord and want to serve out of the abundance that they've received from him. And I think we have that mindset of everything that you mentioned of collaborating and serving together. That's where beautiful or, we like to say, transformational things are possible in our community. So we, you know we're going to. I don't want to wind down this conversation.

Speaker 2:

It's really good.

Speaker 1:

I mean, there's a really rich really really rich gems in here and your story, hopefully, has just been impactful for folks that have been listening and has been an encouragement I think about, not only in our city, but in cities around our country, wherever people are listening. You know there is this again a raised temperature of serving. How do I serve? How can I be, we would say, hands and feet? This is a really great time for you to share of how people can be hands and feet and serve and support the work that you all are doing at Redemption House. Or even if it's not with you, because I know your heart, how can they see these women, these women that have these needs, in a different type of way than maybe we often have, which is to look past?

Speaker 3:

My first encouragement is for those to follow your heart. Encouragement is for those to follow your heart. If there is something stirring in your heart about a challenge you see on TV or something you read, or a conversation you overhear or are a part of, and you feel that stirring inside of, you, get involved. And it doesn't mean you have to have an answer on how to fix that problem, but you can join with and come alongside someone already endeavoring.

Speaker 3:

That's the most fun thing of the fun part of this job, this ministry, this opportunity is to watch people come along because they feel called to want to help women and then their lives are transformed because they're joining in with us and we're looking out for them. We're protecting them, we're educating them. We're changing the dynamic and the conversation around. What does a drug addict look like? What does someone in recovery look like? What does the next felon look like? Well come to redemption house.

Speaker 1:

it looks like your family yeah yeah, it looks like the people you work with.

Speaker 3:

Yeah you know, and actually it probably looks a little nicer because we have really high standards and we set really um high expectations, because I know the ladies can live up to it. And if you've never had someone expect anything good out of you, you've always met their expectations. But when someone comes in and I get to say you're better than that, I expect more from you. I love you and I'm not going to lie to you. Now go, put clothes on that cover all of your parts, Go. You know, let's put some effort into how you put yourself out in the world, because people will receive you that way. Those are the kind of environments we want people to come into and see it's real.

Speaker 3:

The progress may be slow, but it's happening and you can come alongside. So join somewhere, serve somewhere. It doesn't have to. You know, for me I thought I was going to go do jail chaplaincy every once in a while and it revolutionized my life. So that may very well happen for you. But if it does, trust God and get involved. There are good people leading amazing organizations that will welcome you where you are and what you can give.

Speaker 2:

Doesn't she sound like a great coach?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like I'm ready to play, I'm serious. Well, I expect a lot from you, mitch.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 3:

And you too, Jeff.

Speaker 1:

Okay, my bad.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what should someone do if they see a female who might be at risk? What would you recommend they do?

Speaker 3:

I would recommend. There are some really neat resources in every community where you can find who you would reach out to to reach out to that person. Ok, so I shared a message one time about the Good Samaritan, the Good Samaritan right and how the Samaritan is the one that actually went to the guy and helped him and put him on his horse and took him to the end and paid for it, and I remind people that's really that happened a long time ago. I don't encourage people to give up their rides and you know I want you to be smart and safe, but I want you to be educated in what's going on in your community. There are people you can call.

Speaker 3:

Our police force has a number you can dial to ask for CIT officers, crisis officers, to intervene that can get people where they need to go. You know the rescue mission is always open. You can always call us and we can help you find who can intervene, because you do see things and you want to help, but then you also want to be responsible and you don't want to put yourself in danger and you don't want to. You know you want to be just wise. There needs to be wisdom in our outreach, sometimes handing money to someone is is is not helping the situation they're in, but supporting financially those who understand how to intervene in a situation where money isn't. What is the problem?

Speaker 3:

So, hopefully there can be education If you want to be that person that can step in then learn what's available in your community, and that's just sometimes a Google search. There are foundations in every community that has a resource guide, that they put together guides and we have a really we have a couple of really good ones Guides. St Joe Community Health Foundation put out a great one and that has who you call in crisis, where you call how you can help. I don't need to put all that information together. I'll just pass that book out to you.

Speaker 1:

That's right. Is there any final word that you want to you know? Give our audience about your work, about yourself, any final words of encouragement at all? If not, definitely drop the website so they can learn more about it. How about I do both? Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Redemption House, fw for Fort Wayne dot org. And my encouragement would be thank you for listening to your podcast, to understanding what Love Fort Wayne is endeavoring to do, but thank you for remembering not Redemption House but other nonprofits and other leaders in your prayers. All of us have made a commitment that is not always easy to carry. You know, blessings can become burdens if we don't care for ourselves well and I know when people come along and want to serve and help, they want to help the women that we're serving. But sometimes remember the staff, remember those who are called and have accepted this call and show up every day, because those of us who show up every day, we can take a beating spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and your prayers matter. So if you can't give or you can't volunteer, or you give and you volunteer, you can always pray. Remember to pray over and ask God to give strength and wisdom and rejuvenation and restoration to those who have committed to diving into these storms with men and women in our communities.

Speaker 2:

Tommy, redemption means to be bought back. It's an economic term, and God paid a world record price in Jesus Christ for each one of us who surrender our lives to him, and then he calls us to be generous with that grace that we received. You are a portrait of that, and I just want to thank you for all of our community, absolutely. I second.

Speaker 1:

That, yeah, and thank you for joining us. Mitch was a good one. It was a good one. We pray that it blessed you as much as it blessed us as you listened, as you tuned in, and if you enjoy the podcast, nudge somebody and tell them they should check it out too. We will be with you again, as always, next month for another fresh episode. Until then, I pray that you are well and we will get at you when we get at you here at the next Love Fort Wayne podcast. See you next time.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for joining us this month. We drop a new episode the first Monday of every month. Love Fort Wayne has some amazing episodes coming up. You don't want to miss a single one, so subscribe today, wherever you are listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share and leave a review. We want to share your thoughts and comments with listeners on future episodes. Thanks again for joining us today. Join us next time, as we hear from leaders that don't just lead but love our city.

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