Humility may not make the headlines, but it's a game-changer in the world of leadership, and we're bringing it to the forefront. Josh Wymore opens up about his personal struggle to embrace humility and how the pursuit of this virtue has revolutionized his decision-making and relationships. Our conversation pivots to bust myths about humility, offering tangible strategies for any leader to incorporate this quality, regardless of their background. If you're ready for practical steps that lead to intentional growth, this episode provides the tools to build a leadership style grounded in humility.
As the baton of leadership passes from one generation to the next, the humility of both parties plays a pivotal role. This episode illuminates the dynamic that unfolds when experienced leaders collaborate with fresh faces, embracing shifts in culture and the invigorating potential of mentorship. Through heartwarming anecdotes, we celebrate the mutual respect and learning that blooms from a humble approach to generational transitions. For those guiding teams in Fort Wayne or anywhere else, these stories underscore the enduring influence of humility on an organization's evolution and legacy.
Humility may not make the headlines, but it's a game-changer in the world of leadership, and we're bringing it to the forefront. Josh Wymore opens up about his personal struggle to embrace humility and how the pursuit of this virtue has revolutionized his decision-making and relationships. Our conversation pivots to bust myths about humility, offering tangible strategies for any leader to incorporate this quality, regardless of their background. If you're ready for practical steps that lead to intentional growth, this episode provides the tools to build a leadership style grounded in humility.
As the baton of leadership passes from one generation to the next, the humility of both parties plays a pivotal role. This episode illuminates the dynamic that unfolds when experienced leaders collaborate with fresh faces, embracing shifts in culture and the invigorating potential of mentorship. Through heartwarming anecdotes, we celebrate the mutual respect and learning that blooms from a humble approach to generational transitions. For those guiding teams in Fort Wayne or anywhere else, these stories underscore the enduring influence of humility on an organization's evolution and legacy.
Welcome to season four of the Love Fort Wayne podcast. The Love Fort Wayne podcast amplifies the stories of everyday people who are loving and leading in northeast Indiana to spark imagination, root inspiration and ignite transformation in our community and beyond. At Love Fort Wayne, we believe the pillars of a flourishing community are its leaders, pastors, schools, families and prayer, and in season four we're excited to learn from and be encouraged by people who not only lead but love our city in these areas each day Before we die, then we want to say thank you to our partners at Remedy Live, dream On Studios, our financial brotherhood mutual and separate family auto group, for making the podcast possible. Welcome everybody to the Love Fort Wayne podcast. It's Jeff King, ceo of Love Fort Wayne, so excited that you're with us and I'm joined by my friend, mitch Cruz. What's up, mitch? How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm good brother, how are you? I got your starter kit going.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah, I need it. Someday I'll be all the way I'm trying to show you the way this is off to a fantastic start. It is.
Speaker 3:Do you guys even need me here? No, I'll just show myself out.
Speaker 1:We were supposed to point to this mysterious voice that just popped in, and that is our friend, joshua Moore. Author, coach, all around, great guy, I'm privileged to call you a friend. Thank you for being with us here, my pleasure, thanks for having me. Yeah, so, mitch, we're excited to dive in and talk with Josh and, specifically, we're focusing our time for those of you who are watching and listening on leadership and different aspects of leadership how we can love leaders well, but also how we can pour into others in our leadership, but also look at ourselves and our internal makeup as leaders. And so, josh, I feel like you're just a perfect person for us to have a dialogue with and just hear from you, hear your insights, your wisdom and even some of your personal stories and reflections as it pertains to leadership in your leadership journey, and so let's dive into that. Can you just tell us a little bit more, or a little bit first, about who Josh Weymour is?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, first of all, thank you both for having me. Jeff, you've never looked better. Yeah, thank you, mitch, are you what?
Speaker 2:This is going to be some kind of a lesson on pride and humility coming, I think.
Speaker 3:I was just going to ask if you're getting enough sleep but, I'll leave it.
Speaker 3:No, it's great to be with you guys. So yeah, my story it's fascinating. I grew up outside of Waco, texas. My family started a Christian campground when I was in elementary school and they had this crazy idea that if God wanted this ministry to work, then God would pay the bills essentially. And they read this book by this British pastor, george Mueller, and had this philosophy of just praying for needs to come in. And so that was their funding strategy was they would just pray for God to pay the bills. They didn't raise money, they didn't charge admission when we were the prayer team and the construction crew and the camp counselors, and it's kind of an all-en family affair, and so, looking back on that now, it was a pretty formative faith experience to think, wow, if God tells you to do something, it's your job to say yes and it's God's job to make the numbers work. So, yeah, growing up that way was just really formative for me. It worked, it worked. It's still in operation. I think it's going on 30 years now, I think.
Speaker 2:Samaritan's Purse started that way, if I remember correctly, interesting, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So when I fast forward and when I'm leaving my full-time job and starting my business and people are like, wow, that must have been so scary for you, it's like, honestly, it wasn't because I felt like God called me to this and so the most dangerous place to be is outside of the will of God. The safest place to be is right in the middle, so just following that path. But yeah, fast forward a few years. I went to college and I thought I was going to go back to small town, texas and be a high school football coach and math teacher, but we played six-man football.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 3:The school I went to yeah, really small school. But I fell in love with leadership development. I'm mentoring first-year students and helping them adjust to college, and some mentors said you know, there's this whole field of a career called higher education, student development. You can do this stuff in a college setting, and so that's what brought me to Fort Wayne originally back in 2008.
Speaker 3:I was living at Taylor University, fort Wayne when that existed, and driving down to Upland two times a week to do my master's down there and met my wife in that process. She's a Huntington North grad, her family is from this area and so when I finished up at Taylor, I moved away. We got married and slowly started working our way back towards the Midwest, trying to get close to the Yoast Clan here and in 2019, after about a decade and a higher end I left and started my own business coaching and training leaders, and it's just been an incredible journey, just like with the camp. God's provided and opened up lots of doors to do some amazing things, and now we call Fort Wayne home. We're proud residents of the 07. And that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a couple of blocks from Jeff.
Speaker 3:And have three kids a five-year-old, a three-year-old and a one-month-old. So yeah, it's been a great journey and love what God's doing in Fort Wayne.
Speaker 2:He's okay, so he's modeling the humbler of humbler leadership. I want to hear about your PhD, and then I also want to hear about how you were interviewing executives that were making gazillions of dollars for Walmart and what you learned in those two things.
Speaker 3:It's good. Well, so the PhD. When I sort of shifted off the football coach thing and got into higher ed, I thought, well, I'm just going to stay on this track and become a college president and try to really use my position of influence to make a difference in that setting. I found out pretty quickly as a leader, good administration. People just don't notice almost because life just works well.
Speaker 3:There's sensible policies and underperformances addressed, you've got a bad leader. Everybody's just miserable. And so I wanted to sort of climb the ladder and be that good leader in that setting, and so that took me to do my PhD, which I did in education and business, did a minor in business, and my curiosity at that time was how do you make small, private colleges, christian colleges, more affordable and financially viable at the same time? It's just kind of the worst case scenario from a business model perspective, and so did a case study of an organization that went from being on the brink of closing to Remarkably more affordable and viable in just a span of a couple years. So trying to understand what they did, how they changed so quickly and Did that at Penn State, which was just a really great experience.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so yeah, that that actually Just been a great formative experience for me, not just the stuff I learned there, but just the disciplines of learning how to like, look for evidence and question your assumptions and Writing a dissertation. Prepare me to write a book later on, because it's like, oh, if I can do this, I can you know why not yeah so that was a great experience.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, interviewing executives. It's. It's crazy when I, when I transition from Christian higher into the marketplace, I started doing some contract work for an organization called DDI they're one of the leading global talent development, organizational development platforms and so, through them, have the chance to work with a couple dozen fortune 500 companies and Coach their executives, assess their leaders and that kind of stuff. And so Just amazing to think about what's happening at the most influential parts of our, of our economy and One of the most fascinating parts.
Speaker 3:Going into that, you know, honestly, a little intimidated at times because I'm coming from small Christian colleges and a few years later, coaching these executives. But realizing this that leadership is leadership, no matter where it's at. You can add more zeros to your budget, but the same fundamental people problems and personal problems are there. It's just the stakes are higher and the spotlight's brighter. And so learning to lead ourselves well, I think it's even more confidence that that the fundamental work we're doing and becoming more who we're meant to be, it's. It's the same work, no matter where you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really good and I I think that's a really cool segue into your, your journey of becoming an author in writing.
Speaker 1:The book humbler leadership came out in 2023 and Mitch and I are fans of not only you, but we're fans of the book. I mean, for those that are listening, we utilize Josh's book humbler leadership in our ignite cohort, which is a faith-rooted Emerging leaders nine-week cohort to help the emerging leaders in our city, in our community, look deep at themselves, learning how to lead themselves more humbling and more self-aware, and we utilize Josh's book for that book.
Speaker 3:I mean still time to sign up.
Speaker 1:I mean it's March and the spring cohort starts here in a couple weeks, march 27, so you got time to sign up for that and we'll be utilizing the book again. But you know, josh, I think in the book you were, you were talking about some of the sit-downs that you have with some of these Executives, but you just spoke about like leadership is leadership wherever you are. And to have that personal introspection of what type of leader am I and what type of leader have I been called to, be Designed to be, may to be in God's image. It's really talked about in the book humbler leadership. So that was a lot that's just me fanboying, but can you, can you?
Speaker 3:please, please. Enough of you talking about me, mitch. Why don't you talk about me some more? Yeah, can you talk about the?
Speaker 1:book, humbler leadership, and just the the bones behind it and the journey of writing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you for that, that endorsement, yeah, it's very, it's very humbling to feel like something you did made an impact and so, yeah, I thank God that he used an imperfect book from an imperfect person to make a positive difference. So, but thank you for saying that, yeah, yeah, so I am not naturally humble, which won't surprise anyone who knows me well.
Speaker 3:It's. It's definitely something that I've been working at for about 15 years and is because when I was in college I tell the story in the early pages of my book I worked for a humble leader and he had tools I did not have. Like I saw the way he engaged with conflict and the way he was able to accept criticism and feedback from other people and it didn't rock him. He didn't always have to be right and he was way less stressed and way more effective than I was. And I'd like to say that I pursued humility because as a Christian, I just knew, oh, that that honors God and I should do that. But frankly, I wanted it because it got results. Like, I wanted to be less stressed, I wanted to be a better leader and I knew that that was, that was part of it, and I think it God used that initial motivation to lead me into deeper waters and to then, now that just experienced the joy of humility For what it is, even when the results don't pay off. But yeah, that started with with meeting Brad, a softball coach, to talk about in the book. And so for about 15 years I'm working on that personally and I'm mentoring guys.
Speaker 3:We're reading often a book together called humility by C J Mahaney. It's a great book, and, and so that was just this. I'm seeing the benefits of my life, how I'm making better decisions, my marriage is going better, you know I'm I'm becoming more effective at my job because of this growth towards humility and so fast forward to leaving Christian higher ed to enter in the marketplace. Now I'm having conversations with leaders and probably half of them have no faith background at all, which I'm super excited about. I feel like it was a chance to move from helping Christians be better Christians, to bring in the gospel to places that maybe it's ever been before. But one of the challenges is that, as I'm talking about humility with some of these folks, some of them get it, even if they don't have a faith background, like it's just it's hardwired into them. But other people are like seriously like humility, and I even had a guy he was a military veteran and he said to me like Josh, you don't show your weakness to the enemy. That's like the last thing you do.
Speaker 3:And I was like okay, first of all, your people are not the enemy, nobody's shooting at you. But secondly, like this works and I'm trying to explain that it works without using phrases like washing the blood of the lamb, you know like growing up like.
Speaker 3:Baptist Christian, and so I'm trying to make the case for humility to this person. I'm thinking, okay, if you don't have a faith background where you have scripture backing this up, why should you care about humility? And so, going back to the PhD you mentioned earlier, mitch, I thought, okay, maybe that's a tool I can bring to this conversation. That hasn't really been brought before is the research side of this. How do you take all the research that's been done since Jim Collins wrote Good to Great and kind of put humility on the radar for a lot of executives? There's been 20 years of research since then. How do we take that research and make it accessible and useful for the common everyday leader and actually make a case for humility and get that veteran who's like nah to say, well, shoot, this sounds stupid, but I got to take a look at it, right, because I know it'll work. And so that's sort of the first problem that the book tries to solve is convincing you that you should be obsessed with becoming humbler.
Speaker 3:And the second problem that I'm trying to solve with the book is you know even people who buy into humility and think it's great if you ask them okay, great, hey, you're all about that. So what's your plan? How are you becoming humbler? They kind of look at you like you've got three eyes and I think the assumption is well, I just try not to think about myself and that does it. Hopefully God gives me humility, you know. But the reality is, you know, for anything we're trying to develop in our lives, you know you can do things proactively to make that happen. And so the book lays out 10 practical day to day things you can do to actually become humbler, and that's what I wanted to do. It was a very practical, tangible. Sink your teeth into a book, because that's where things change, when you actually start doing something with the content.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Studies show that humility and self-esteem are connected, whereas pride and a lack of self-esteem are connected. Can you talk about why? Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's an interesting chicken and the egg problem there, because in order for me to admit my faults and failures to people, I've got to be okay.
Speaker 3:Taking that blow it makes me not look good, and so there's a certain baseline of self-esteem I have to have in order to do that. And then, once I do that, humility starts to reinforce that self-esteem and starts to grow more, because they become more content with my place in the world. You know, in the four pillars of humble leadership, the second one is appreciating other strengths and contributions. And so when I know who I am and I'm fine with that, and I can look at you and say, yeah, you've got this experience, this auctioning background, like how great is that? Like I don't need to go be an auctioner to try and beat you and one up you. I can just be excited for that and let you do you and that's great. I know who to call whenever I've got a car question. And so it's this interesting cycle that goes back and forth that I become more content with who I am, more appreciative of you at the same time, and that self-esteem grows.
Speaker 2:I think we need all four pillars, I agree.
Speaker 3:You want to share those? Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've kind of alluded to two of them already. The first is an accurate self-perception, and that differs a bit from what people often think of when they think of humility. We often think of humility as oh no, it was terrible. Like you complimented the book earlier and I should say oh no really.
Speaker 3:I can't believe you even read it. I mean it was awful. You get past page two and when you compliment someone and they say that it just kind of feels awkward. Do you want me to keep complimenting you? So you believe me?
Speaker 2:What is this really about? I commented positively on an athlete's performance and the response I got back was no, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like well wait yeah. I mean yeah, I saw it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, You're choosing to like. I'm dismissing your feedback or comments. They're like that's not really respectful, so it's true, it's a true, accurate perception.
Speaker 2:That's right yeah.
Speaker 3:If I'm great at something, yeah, I'm great at that. Now let's be honest about where that comes from, right? Hey, yeah, that's a gift from God. Yeah, man, I'm so privileged to be in this. The team helped All that stuff's true, right. So, you can deflect where that's appropriate, but if you killed it, don't say no.
Speaker 2:I didn't you know, because that's not true.
Speaker 3:And one of the roots of humility. Hummus actually means like earth and ground. And so when we say that people wow, that guy's really got his feet on the ground, he's really grounded we're saying that person's humble because they're living in reality. It's good and that's important because you can only change things in reality. And so if I have an issue of talking too much but I refuse to acknowledge that I'm never going to make that problem any better. I have to acknowledge that reality before I can change reality.
Speaker 3:And so that's the first piece is humble leaders. They see themselves accurately and nobody's perfected this right. We all have blind spots, but it's this ongoing journey towards greater self-awareness so that then we can become more of who we're meant to be. So that's the first piece. The second one is I've alluded to already is accurate self-perception or appreciating other strengths and contributions.
Speaker 3:And once I understand myself and I'm comfortable with myself, I know my lane, then I can be excited for Mitch to be Mitch and for Jeff to be Jeff. I know where my value comes from and my identity comes from, and so I don't have to cut you down so that I feel stronger by comparison. And so leaders there they are, like hunting for talent. All the time, we're trying to draw out the best of other people because they know, like, as a, if we're a cohesive body, I need the foot to be the best foot it can be and yeah, I'm a hand, but, man, if the heart's not working, nothing works right. I need everybody else to work well together. The third is growth mindset, and growth mindset is this belief that it's my success is more predicated on my effort and my ability to learn and to grow than it is on my performance in any given day.
Speaker 2:I learned recently, I'm saying and maybe in the last decade or so, that I should cease and desist on praising my children for their accomplishments and praise them for the effort that they brought to the table. And that's really hard to make that shift.
Speaker 3:Like you got to be cognizant of it. Say more about why that's important.
Speaker 2:Because they'll know why they got to the point where they got that I was proud of that, and result and they'll apply that everywhere else and they'll realize that it's the process, it's the journey, it's not the destination.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, yeah. Strangely, when you applaud kids too much for their performance, then they want to only show you the good performances and hide the others or not take on new challenges. If they think that they may not get an A, you know they're not going to take an art class if they've never done art. Because they may not get an A, they may not be the best in the class, and so they end up just stifling themselves so much and so much of their potential and their joy is limited down the road.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to say to young adults that I had the opportunity to disciple or mentor and even student athletes. You know, I wanted to always remind them that it's not always what they accomplished but what they put in motion. And what I used to say by that, or try to exude in that statement, was what you just mentioned, josh. There are going to be some things that you do well and that you succeed in and you'll win and you'll get a good grade on it or whatever it is, but some of a lot of the times, it's the things that you've put into motion before someone actually saw the accomplishment, saw you receive the award, saw you on the stage, and I wanted to pour into those things.
Speaker 1:I see you doing this, putting the thing that you desire to accomplish into motion before you've ever achieved it. Because and I think the feedback at that was oh, I'm seen there too, not just where people see me in between some lines on a Friday night or on a stage when I'm preaching or teaching to people that are in front of me. So I love that concept of thought and I think I'm glad that you mentioned it, mitch, even with my children, my teenage daughters. It's results oriented culture and society, and fast ones too in this day and age, by six second clips or 90 seconds, and or it's not a real and it doesn't fit onto the social media thing. They think that is only happening by the result that they see. And I even want to tell my girls as they learn to lead themselves and others, I want to reward you or applaud you and encourage you in the spaces that are unseen before you even achieve the thing that your hopes and desires are laid upon.
Speaker 2:So it's good there's a book coming out.
Speaker 1:It's done, it's, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Did I write the forward for that?
Speaker 1:Yes you did. These two authors need to help.
Speaker 2:What's that book? What's the book? It's really, really a great idea.
Speaker 1:Tell them what you did. The heart of the book was to really help people. It's called the Overseer and it's a fable of noble leadership and it's really just based upon a young person being taught by an older person the steps of what it means to truly carry yourself in a noble way, and it's really just based on what Peter was teaching Timothy about the overseers of the church. These are the characteristics of a good overseer, but you can have these characteristics in the everyday as you oversee people where you are.
Speaker 3:That's good. I got to get a copy of that book. Where can I find it?
Speaker 1:For free 99.
Speaker 3:Free 99.
Speaker 1:I got you.
Speaker 3:Where can our listeners find the book?
Speaker 1:They can get it on Amazon. All right, yeah, you can get it on Amazon.
Speaker 2:I thought it was a great idea to take the characteristics of an overseer and apply it to leadership in general. It's almost like you kind of skip that thought when you're reading about them. It was powerful. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to more comment on growth mindset as you're talking about it.
Speaker 3:I think there's something so true about how we live in such an instant result society and you feel like if you're not getting instant results, you shouldn't even play the game. You read books like Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers about the Beatles, who are playing in these dive bars in Germany for 10,000 hours and nobody knows who they are. Then they do this instant, overnight success. You don't see the work that goes in behind that. That's where I think growth mindset offers so much hope. Because there's this quote from Joe Kovic, the tennis player. He said something I'm going to paraphrase here. He said someone asked him about what's the difference between a great player and a mediocre player and he said great players love hitting the ball. And I thought that was so insightful that it's not like great players love to win, great players love to dominate, but it's like they just like hitting the ball.
Speaker 3:And when I was writing the book, you know honestly, for the first probably 30 drafts, I was so focused on how do I make this book great, like I want it to be great. When I write a great book, and the more I got into it, the more like it just sucked my soul away, because it's like I'm scrutinizing everything and oh, this wasn't very good, should even continue, and I was thinking about that joke of it, quote, and I I actually changed my, my goal from, you know, write a good book and get it finished, or or, you know, get the manuscript finished by this deadline to make the book great, and change the goal to enjoy the process Of writing a really good book. Because if I can just enjoy the craft, then I don't need External validation for what comes to that. I can enjoy writing if no one sees it, yeah, then I can show up and do it again and again and maybe actually the book will be good. But man, for the three years I'm writing this thing, I could actually enjoy those three years.
Speaker 3:Yeah and not just feel like I'm toiling away so for your kids that the leaders were coaching. How can they just enjoy the craft of leading, parenting, changing diapers, wiping butts, you know all all the dayliness of that. They can enjoy that, they could be good at it and they could be so much life on the other side of that and when you have a faith background, we have a relationship with God.
Speaker 2:You're actually growing in your intimacy with God.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right yeah it's good and you were, so I think we are two of the four right.
Speaker 2:We got three growth. Yes, okay, bring this home. You want to see me pass the quiz?
Speaker 1:No, my mom will tell you he was good at school, but he wasn't a good test taker.
Speaker 3:No, sorry, go ahead, josh. Yeah, so the the final one is a greater purpose, and so that's something beyond myself that I give myself to yeah and this is what we often think of humble leaders.
Speaker 3:We, we are humble people. We think they're the people on the sidelines. They're meek and mild, they don't speak up, you know, they're maybe even timid. But when you look at the humble leaders that Jim Collins profiles and good to great, or the ones I talk about in my book, these are not like nervous, you know, quietish people. They're like making stuff happen. And the reason is Colin says this and good to great that that they were always ambitious but it was never for themselves, it was never about them.
Speaker 3:You know, if I believe in Fort Wayne and what, what God is doing in Fort Wayne, then, man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stretch myself, I'm gonna challenge that the status quo because I believe that God's doing something in Fort Wayne. Yeah, if I believe that, that you as a leader, you know you're being held back by some limiting belief. I don't really like to tell you things that make you uncomfortable. I want you to like me. You know I want to be popular, but if I care about you enough, I'm gonna have that conversation. And that's the, the kind of the catalyst for these humble leaders is something beyond themselves, beyond their own comfort, beyond their own fame or success that they're giving themselves to. That makes them push people, push organizations to that next level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good. Being honest with people is Is a way in which we show that we love them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, care about them and I love that point.
Speaker 1:You know, as we kind of come down the home stretch of our, our discussion today and our just time together which has been sweet, it's I got a couple things I just I want to ask you. It's what. The first thing is connected to generations and, as we see, emerging leaders from emerging generations Progress into their leadership roles and who they've been called to be. And I think in our community We've been blessed with the generations that have gone before us here in Fort Wayne that have held the mantle, many of them believers With the solid root and foundation in their faith, that have again helped Transform our community, build our community from many different sectors. They're getting into the second phase of their life.
Speaker 1:I want how, what's the approach for both of those generations? I think is what I want to ask in regards to how can the emerging generation hold themselves up humbly as they now take the baton or transition into their leadership roles, and how would you encourage the, the generation that has gone before some of us to to do the same? I think about a trellis in that lattice connection and how a trellis, when it's connected, beautiful vines and fruit begins to bear because there's been an overlap that has happened that allowed for that to happen? Is there a way that you would encourage the emerging gin to humbly step into their leadership and the generation that's gone before them to humbly step into their leadership of those folks?
Speaker 3:Man, that's so good. What thoughts do you guys have on that? I?
Speaker 1:I think. What do you think? Because I have some thoughts, but we're in that generation, Mitch.
Speaker 3:Yeah, If you oh thanks.
Speaker 2:If you apply humbler leadership, both ends of the spectrum the emerging leader and the leader of leaders or the veteran leader can learn from the other. Um, I think so many. Well, it's the news is littered with companies that don't stay connected to the culture, and so if you're not connecting with the emerging generation, you're missing where our culture is headed. In fact, a church will die if there are no kids in it. Right, Right, Um, and I think it's really a two-way street.
Speaker 2:We found with Ignite that when an emerging leader and a veteran leader get together, that the veteran leader is almost more energized and learning and gleaning more almost than the emerging leader, but the emerging leader doesn't see it that way, and so it's a beautiful thing when they come to that relationship with humility. And I think it's your lattice and vine illustration.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's, that's beautiful and I think you hit it on the head. When I've been with a leader that has gone before me, that's a uh, I'm 39. And so I think about a leader that I've leaders that I know that are 50 to 55 and older, when they've come or I've come to them, I'm like, oh, they want to listen to me as I glean from them. That's where I came.
Speaker 1:I want to, I want to hear, but I think, generationally, where I am, I think can't be scared to listen, because I think a lot of times in my generation is well, the generation above us doesn't want to hear us. Um, but I think we don't always want to listen. And so I think if we can present ourselves humbly and say, hey, I want to listen to learn, not just so I can take what you've done and make it better, but I want to listen to learn from you I think it opens the door of of of being able to then be heard, or then to share, uh, what's on my heart, and I've had to work through that, I've had to kind of work through. I just want to share this thing, not because I have it all right, but I want to. I want to share it because I want to understand your perspective, because you've gone before me.
Speaker 2:When I met this guy, he was training, uh, my daughter he's he's humble about it, but he's trained a lot of D one athletes, a lot of professional athletes, and I knew there was something inside him that was great and he had he had great parents. Um, he was a man of faith and he was multiplying that throughout younger people in the playground of training them and, uh, I wanted to get together more with I want to know more about him, learn more about him. And I realized later I mean he told me years later that was a, that was a big deal to him.
Speaker 2:You know, I said hey, here's my cell, you know, let's talk. And we ended up doing a couple of little ministry things together. But then I started following his career and when I saw him become a pastor, boom, boom oh dude way to go, you know and then he's leading a church and I'm telling you, uh, the Holy Spirit is very attractive in Jeff King, but that all comes from that relationship the desire for the generations to to meet and connect.
Speaker 3:Well, I can. I can affirm what you're saying in, jeff. You know, yes, I can't think of a better leader to model the humble leadership that we're talking about today.
Speaker 1:Thank you brothers. Yeah, thank you brothers. Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:Those are. Those are great words. I probably don't need to add anything, but, uh, I will, since I'm here. Um, yeah, as I think about those four pillars, maybe playing at differently for the generations, but the same basic idea and so accurate self perception, I think, for that that, uh, new leader, it's not thinking I have it all figured out or thinking I have nothing to offer, but yeah, I've. Here's my skill set, here's what I think I can contribute, here's how I can, you know, move things forward. The same with that, that established leader, they don't think well, you know I'm the big player in town, right, and, and you know I own this city. But no, we need, like you said, mitch, like we need the young people to come in and offer their perspective. Um, you know that appreciating other strengths, it's the same thing. It's recognizing yeah, just because you know you you're gray hair doesn't mean I can't learn anything from you. In the same way that, just because you don't have any hair or your, uh, yeah, no facial hair at least, like I can't learn anything from you. Um, growth mindset.
Speaker 3:I think the most exciting senior leaders I'm around, of the ones that are still hungry to to learn and grow and my wife's grandfather, darryl, was that way, like, he was always reading books and learning.
Speaker 3:And you know we, right up until he passed away, we're having conversations about reinventing higher education. You know, and the, the, the cognitive science shows that, like, if you keep learning, that's how your brain stays active, that's how you stay sharp, and and the all the the old wives tales around, you can't teach a dog new tricks and you can only learn a foreign language if you're this age. That's actually been proven totally untrue. You can learn up until the time you die. And so, especially for those veteran leaders, taking that approach of, I've got something to learn and something to offer at the same time, that makes for just some really fun dynamics and the greater purpose. You know, if it's for the veteran leader, if they get hung up on their legacy and wanting to, to prove something to other people, or if the, the young leaders, are just trying to, like, make a name for themselves, you're not, it's not going to work well together. But if it is about contributing to something beyond ourselves, we can find ways to work together well and find so much joy in that process.
Speaker 2:Josh, you're a young man and someone in his sixties was very proud in a good way. I think Paul uses pride in a good way twice in the New Testament about you being his coach when you talk about. If somebody, an emerging leader, is listening today and they're thinking about that leadership coaching gig, how can a young person be a leadership coach to somebody who is farther along in that veteran generation?
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question. So the part of the of that that question comes with people not understanding what coaching is. Yeah, we often conflate coaching and mentoring with each other, and so mentoring is what you see in Ignite, you know, like, yeah, I've, I've done this for 30 years, I've saved you some trouble by telling you some, you know, lessons learned along the way, and there's incredible value for that. I mean, I seek mentors for that same reason too, because it's accelerating my learning. I don't have to make your mistakes over again. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:But coaching is actually different than that.
Speaker 3:Coaching is me helping you understand what you're thinking, helping you understand what your priorities are, helping you overcome your own, you know, mental roadblocks or whatever it is. And so really, the core, the core competencies for a mentor it's life experience, desire to pour into others, that kind of stuff. But for coaching it's ability to listen well, to be present, to ask good questions, to hold space and create some helpful tension. And so in some ways, actually, the most experienced coaches, in some ways their experience is a liability, because it's so hard to stay in that that gear of asking questions and say, all right, well, let me just tell you what I did and then we'll get back to coaching, and so you can find an incredible coach at any age, if they have those things Again that presence, listening, great questions and honestly, I think so much of it is the things you can't teach, which are like the love for people, genuine desire to see other people thrive, and then the wisdom that only comes from God, the knowing what questions to ask in that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:No wonder you're in high demand, Josh is there any final word that you just give folks as we close? Those who want to love leaders around them will, or those who are just looking to grow in your leadership? Any final words of encouragement for folks to sit in those two lanes?
Speaker 3:Well, the book title is Humbler Leadership, and humbler is actually a word I learned in the process of writing this book, and the whole idea for the humbler part is that all of us, no matter where we are, can become a little bit more humble than we already are, even Jeff, which is close to the pinnacle of humility, he can still do that.
Speaker 3:And so, wherever you are, whatever the thing is you're working on, whether it's becoming more loving or more patient or less self-centered. It's easy to look at the paragons, people who are at the end of the finish line, and think, oh, I'll never be that person and just want to throw in the towel. But if we can enjoy that process again of getting a little bit better every day and become a little humbler, a little more patient, whatever man, there's so much joy in that process and I guarantee you that people who are closest to you are really going to thank you for doing that hard work of leaning into your own character growth.
Speaker 3:I got a specialty advertising idea for you for merch Okay.
Speaker 2:The humbler-tumbler. It gets filled up and empties itself out. Come on, dude the humbler-tumbler. It's like you've done that before. It just came to me.
Speaker 1:It came to you. Well, josh, we appreciate you. Man, yeah, my pleasure. And just sitting with us and talking with those who are listening about leadership, your leadership journey and humbler leadership. You've heard the title of the book. It is humbler leadership, and so, if you have not picked that up, outside of us being friends, it is a great read, it's foundational and I think it's great for anyone, regardless of where you're leading. And also, we also want to plug that Ignite. The spring session of Ignite starts here in a couple of weeks, march 27th, and there are still spots available here. So go to our website at lovefortwaynecom, slash ignite to get registered or even contact us so we can tell you a little bit more about the Ignite journey. Thanks for tuning in. We hope that this podcast has blessed you and we'll be with you next month for another Love Fort Wayne podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining us this month. We drop a new episode the first Monday of every month. Love Fort Wayne has some amazing episodes coming up. You don't want to miss a single one, so subscribe today, wherever you are listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share and leave a review. We want to share your thoughts and comments with listeners on future episodes. Thanks again for joining us today. Join us next time, as we hear from leaders that don't just lead but love our city.